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Friday
March 2010
12
Community Blogs
How Much Is Convenience Worth To You?
Last week I blogged about the habit that some local cities (including Wauwatosa) has of micro managing businesses within the city limits. As some of you know (or can easily tell), this is a pet pieve of mine. In fact, I have a category on my other blog, The World According to Nick, dedicated to stupid laws. Well, in response to my post last week, another Wauwatosa resident, who has asked to remain anonymous, emailed me this:
I saw the subject of your community blog today, and it reminded me of something that happened to me in Wauwatosa recently. Our dishwasher broke, so I went to a local Wauwatosa establishment to buy a new one and picked out a new shiny dishwasher for about $500. I asked how much was delivery and installation, and the first question was "where do you live?" Apparently in Wauwatosa, you need to pull two building permits, one for electrical and one for plumbing costing over $100 for the permits alone. This is to replace an EXISTING dishwasher. So installation was going to run well over $400 dollars.
I went to two other places and got the same story, including a retailer in Brookfield.
In the end, I bought one and had it delivered without installation. Then I read the instructions and installed it myself in about 30 minutes. It turns out it's a fairly trivial operation if you are even a little bit handy and are replacing an existing unit.
Why on earth is the city of Wauwatosa entitled to $100 for me to put in a replacement dishwasher?
When I read this, I thought he was pulling my leg, so I went over to the official Wauwatosa website and did a little research. And for a dishwasher, it does seem you need two permits, one electrical and one plumbing. The plumbing permit is $50 flat just to start, plus $10 for each appliance requiring inspections, while the electrical permit could cost you anywhere from $25 to $50 (its confusing on the permit). The electrician also needs a special city license in order to do the work (which costs $12 annually). This licensing is above and beyond a required state certification. As it turns out, Brookfield has a $65 minimum on their electrical inspections, but their plumbing inspections seem to be cheaper.
Of course, my intent in pointing this out is not to suggest that building codes have no use. However, when they get to this point, where the common home owner would rather forgo having the work professionally done, it ends up defeating the purpose of the codes. The general purpose behind codes and permits is to have a safer home, and to make sure that when you buy a house from someone, there is a reasonable presumption of safety.
But ask yourself this... if the work is being done by a licensed professional, who is employed by a business that wants to maintain a solid reputation in the area, isn't that actually more of an incentive to do good work, than an inspection process that is nothing but a way for the city to collect extra money? And further ask yourself... if you charge so much for a permit that people would rather do the work themselves without telling the city... is that actually making our homes safer?
Thanks Nick for this reasoned post.
My most recently purchased Tosa home was a fixer-upper and my wife and I had to hire an electrician (and pay him time and materials) to pull a permit to redo all sorts of dangerous and unpermited electrical work.
On the other hand I know this guy that once replaced his dishwasher himself...
Nick,
According to the Wauwatosa website, you do not need a permit to REPLACE a dishwasher, only to install a new one, which most likely will require electrical and plumbing work beyond the average home owner.
http://wauwatosa.net/display/router.asp?DocID=277#Q12
From the article:
I want to install a new dishwasher. What permits do I need?
Electrical and plumbing permits are required, and the work must be performed by a licensed electrician and a licensed plumber. <STRONG>If you are replacing an existing dishwasher and no modifications are being made to either the electrical or plumbing connections, a permit is not required.</STRONG>
But I don't disagree with you.... I understand the architectural stuff, and ensuring you meet code. But come on, why not let a homeowner pull a permit and do the work themselves? It's not the money for the permit that bugs me, its the fact that I literally can't do my own plumbing work because I'm not a plumber. What does this lead to? A bunch of work being done all over the city without a permit, or any inspection. So how does that make a house safer?
Thanks beckkl for the link answering the question on existing dishwashers. I had not seen that when I was searching the website. I still think the degree to which permits are required is getting out of hand, but at least its not as bad as was originally thought.
And you're exactly right about working on your own home. What's the point in owning something, if you can't do the work on it yourself. Otherwise, you're almost a glorified renter, where the city really owns your home.
So, basically, your whole blog this week is in error. And all of that "research" for nothing...
I don't think so CarpieD. First of all, the permit forms should be more specific as to not cause confusion. Two local stores were convinced that Wauwatosa required those permits for replacment dishwashers, so obviously things are not clear.
Secondly, I'm not convinced that you should even require $100 worth of permits to put in a NEW dishwasher, which IS required.
And I think it has generated a great discussion on whether you should have to hire a specially licensed electrician, instead of being able to legally do some wiring in your own house.
Nick,
Don't feel so bad that you live in one of the three W's that electricians stay away from - Wauwatosa, West Allis, and Waukesha.
Do I blame them? Not in the least. Some of the code restrictions and logistical hoops that are in place are, in my mind, patently ridiculous on their face.
To pull a permit to attach a tee in your hot water line after the shutoff valve? That is funny. Adding a threaded tee is about as hard as screwing on a sprinkler to the end of a garden hose. Adding the electrical outlet, that may be a different matter. Some homes have cloth insulated wiring and that has to be handled with kid gloves and I pray that a house does not have aluminum wiring - that is plain insane.
We had a water heater pop one day and had it replaced. I wasn't home but the missus was when the inspector came to check out the new installation. From her description, all he did was look, made a few sounds and signed off on it. No testing for leaking piping, water or gas or check the patency of the flue. I would say that inspector was a poseur as he really did not INSPECT.
Most of the fees and permit stuff, IMNSHO, is meant to fatten the city coffers and does nothing to guarantee the safety or adequacy of the work.
Tags: Laws
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